145 thoughts on “Peace sells (but who’s buying?)”

1. I didn’t read the entry, because A) the print is too small in Mozilla (yes, I’m complaining again), and B) it was about politics …
   and my mother always told me you should never argue with a crazy mind
   or was that Billy Joel that said that?

   Anyway, I just wanted to comment to tell you I’ve plagurized you (kind of) on my latest weblog entry.
   I’m hoping for a big dramatic hoopla to be made about it. heh. 😉
   Not. I just thought you might want to read it.

2. I couldn’t have said it better myself, e.

3. Thanks Kathy… I’ve been on edge now for two days. Not to mention this “Agree to war or you’re stupid” bullshit on the web is pissing me off.

   Chloe, I’m not particularly thrilled with the fonts, or the link colors… it’s an easy enough CSS fix.

   I saw your site, and I’m sick of this “right-wing” intolerance that criticizing your government (Or President Eastwood) is “UnAmerican”. As Nico said the other day (and I so agree) “These things wouldn’t fuck us up if we didn’t care so much.”

   This country started because a few guys got together and said “Yo… this shit sucks!:”. I believe that was Thomas Paine.

4. I’m with you all the way on this one e.
   A thought does occurr to me though. Perhaps the only cause Bush may have for claiming Iraq has w.o.m.d. yet fails to come clean on how he knows, is because some previous US administration actually gave them to Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war. Wouldn’t that be embarrassing?
   Now excuse me while I book my reservation at a chilly damp cave in the Scottish highlands.

5. Maybe it’s just a sign of the times, but have you noticed how often political bloggers tend to ride the party line. They will often adopt a position based on reading a single article or blogger post. This is mirrored in Congressional voting. Politicians barely make a blip on the individuality radar due to their featureless profiles.

   Frankly, I can’t stand either party. They have stopped giving a shit long ago. Did it come about via voter apathy? Then I’m just as guilty with my silly excuse of never seeing a candidate worth a damn that had a chance of winning. Both parties have let extreme elements undermine their intellectual integrity.

   The shame that will haunt the dems is their equal hand in catering corporate corruption. I add stupidity to that since that were bought cheaper than the reps. They’ve been pulled into the same pit of greed that the republicans have been in for some time, but they pretend otherwise and make themselves all the more loathsome.

   The reps have at least stayed true to most of their original principles. However, they have abused religion as a means to get votes rather than spiritual succor. They have lost sight of the small government idea completely. They have such contempt for the average citizen that they keep putting racists and criminals in high profile places. It’s either audacity or ignorance. This is the age of The Smoking Gun and instant media proliferation. You can’t tell racist jokes at a public event, spout plainly bias views important to your position, or be wanted in countries for war crimes without someone raising the "What the Fuck?" flag. The whole "dividend" tax cut was so stunningly obvious that the majority of the population (which just so happen to not hold stock) could feel GWB’s prick poke their buttocks. Mind you, that Clinton’s lies were just as insulting, but his fondness for fellatio left my fanny free from feelings of being fondled.

   For some time GWB’s direct approach had worked with domestic opinion polls. The tough stance put pressure on bodies like the UN to think of something and it’s not like they can’t play his game. Already, the inspections undermine the biggest reason given for invading Iraq, WMDs. If we have evidence that they have them, then why not give it to the inspectors so they can dispose of them? Instead they unleash more bedtime horror stories from Baghdad. This is the same thing they did for the first war. We had told Saddam we were not going to get involved. Then we got scared when we thought about how his troops could walk down the Saudi Coastline and then control 40% of the world’s oil. But the message was about Saddam’s troops taking babies from incubators and he’s evil and must be removed. Once we beat his army, it became,"Oh, we meant remove him from Kuwait. He can stay on as head demon."

   The show of fake concern is what is so sickening. They didn’t care then and they don’t care now. Sure go and bomb the shit out of Iraq. They might as well die with the knowledge of providing war mongers with a platform to test new high tech weapons rather than be the platform for new torture techniques.

6. Yep, e – Totally. Also, that woman doing the shield thing is kind of a fuckwit – but she IS doing something – which even though IMO is stupid as eating Drano, it is SOMETHING other than whining, which I appreciate.

   I’ll be damned if I am going, LOL, but it’s good to try.

   I loved your post, really. It was an excellent read.

7. Not to mention this “Agree to war or you’re stupid” bullshit on the web is pissing me off.

   Me, too. In fact, I posted a nice long rant about it just yesterday .. well, Thursday.

   Great minds and all that. 🙂

8. This war will only be good to squander the political good will that America got from the WWII! Have you read the proposed plans? Or the countries that support the USA in the war? We will lose more than money and lives here. GWB is, by far, a worse danger than Saddam could ever be.

9. Bravo *stands and appluads*. That was truly awesome. Thank you -e..

10. What is sad I have 2 extreme right wing friends we don’t do politics. No reson too they are “right” and everyone else is left, which is “wrong”. I get sick of the shit but don’t say anything because it seems pointless, thanks for your well written post.

11. I love you E!! I really do!! You said it all for me! You and Dawn!! I am a crappy writer, especially about politics, so I’ll tell the world right now….. SEE MY ANSWER at Anarchtica, and Blatherings!!!! Thank you for putting it all together much better than I ever could!! {{{{{{{{E}}}}}}}}}}}

12. I’ve heard it discussed before… but I never peiced the connection until recently: GWB is pissed over Saddam’s assasination attempts of his father… he’s mentioned it in the same breath as getting rid of Saddam.

    How come we (Americans) don’t know about this???

    Is this what this war is all about (and, well, I’m sure dividing Iraq’s oil up with all of our buddies helping.)

    FUCK! You know me. I am *all about* vengeance and settling old scores… but using your executive powers, manipulating the U.N., and making a global platform our of this (because, well, Saddam *is* a scumbag)… this is SO WRONG on so many levels that it’s scary!

13. The problems that the U.S. has in the middle east are all caused by SUV drivers.

14. Maybe I’m an idiot. I fully take responsibility for that.

    But what in the world good did this do?

    We’re in the middle of a world CRISIS. These mushroom clouds that everyone’s ranting about are possibly IMPENDING. And all we can do is sit here and whine about taking our ball and going home? All we can do is whine about what an ass GWB is or what an evil person Saddam Hussein is?

    GIVE ME SOME DAMNED ANSWERS, PEOPLE!

    I’m not a warmonger. I don’t want to go to war with Iraq. But I want a reason NOT TO. All I get is “Well, a bunch of people are going to DIE.” Well, of course they are. I don’t want to die. I don’t want my friends to die. I don’t want British people to die. I don’t want Iraqi people to die.

    But while GWB pushes forward his military plan, no one is coming up with any solutions for what the problem is. Who is offering a different solution? What do we do to handle the plight of the Iraqi people? Don’t say it’s not our responsibilty. It’s the world’s responsibility to keep the planet intact, to try to help people in trouble and to feed and clothe our own. We lessen our own value by ignoring the plight of others who need help. One diminished person diminishes us all.

    If we could stop screaming about who’s fault this is for FIVE FREAKIN’ MINUTES and try to rationally and calmly come up with some sort of solution, maybe we wouldn’t be in all the trouble we’re in.

    GWB and Saddam Hussein are TWO men. How many billions are on this globe? How many of us will sit around, whine and twiddle our thumbs doing nothing? For whatever else you can say about these two men, at least they’re taking ACTION.

    I want to stamp my foot and send all the right-wing, left-wing, centrists to their respective corners and not let them come out until they can discuss this like adults.

    Yelling at the right wing extremists who taunt and make fun of the left wings for being unAmerican is pointless, unproductive and it sinks you down to their level.

    Why not shut them up with some excellent rhetoric about what you’ve got as an option?

    I’m so frustrated right now that I’m ready to tear my hair out.

    You can’t ignore the probability of war. Protests and screaming are FUTILE at this point. Come up with some GOD DAMNED ANSWERS to give the desperate people of the UN something to WORK WITH.

    *throws hands up and tosses keyboard at the computer screen*

15. You can’t ignore the probability of war. Protests and screaming are FUTILE at this point. Come up with some GOD DAMNED ANSWERS to give the desperate people of the UN something to WORK WITH.

    At this point, I don’t know if there is…
    I just wanted to provide a missing piece of the puzzle, and give anyone who thinks this is the dumbest move since Vietnam a chance to vent and share their views (without being called “stupid sheep”).

    Bush wants Saddam dead. Simple and plain. Fuck the economy, fuck what Europe and the Middle East thinks. That’s priority one.

    Colin Powell shares the frustration of the original team of Desert Storm. Schwartzkopf wanted to go all the way and take Saddam out of his palace in chains, but the U.N. resolution simply said “Drive them out of Kuwait… and that’s it.”

    Diplomacy will not work with Saddam… perhaps if he’s offered a small window of opportunity where he’ll save face with his people, he’ll take it. But he’s proven time and time again, he can’t be trusted. Reasoning with Bush is just as futile. Bush was warned repeatedly by Saudi Arabia and Egypt not to go after Iraq.

    As John pointed out… we didn’t care about the people of Iraq then, and we don’t now. The world is torn on this subject… you can’t condone Saddam’s actions, and you can’t give a *LEGAL* reason why the U.S. has the right to change someone’s govenment.

    In the right wing’s defense… From a moral standpoint, I can’t think of a single reason for Saddam to live, much less stay in power.

    I have resigned that this is out of all of our hands. I hope the world can spend its final moments forgiving the people of the U.S. for its naivete, and I hope you all don’t suffer from radiation poisoning too much ….

    Last one out turn off the lights.
    And stop glowing… that’s rude.

16. Has anyone ever thought of the possibility that Saddam Hussein wants this and Bush is playing right into his hands? Saddam doesn’t seem to care that we could come in and wipe his country off the map. The man (and I use the term loosely) is insane. He’s shown that he’s not above using women and children as human shields, placing them into key, strategic locations he figures will get bombed. The asshole wants this war to happen, and because GWB thinks of him as “the man who tried to kill my dad” and he’s surrounded by advisors and people who were in his father’s administration who want to finish what they started twelve years ago, he’s playing right into the hands of a mad man.

    That’s one theory I have anyway. Maybe it’s not a definitive answer, but it’s a thought that’s been bouncing around my head in the last few days.

17. Yeah,you tell them -e- !

18. -e- not only are you right, but I’ll take it a step further. I realize at this point in time, regardless of what the UN Inspectors come back with, we are going to war. Bush clearly made up his mind before even getting the evidence. Here is my question…how in the world can you promote peace by starting a war? I could go on and on – but I just got home from class, my brain is fried. But war does not bring solutions – it only causes more problems.

19. I am so glad that you have a dialog going on here. I don’t want a war either. I don’t understand why the countries surrounding Irag aren’t as upset as the US, and if not them, then the countries that surround those countries (as so on). And I am tired of the US being the Police of the World. We are so hated, and we have been for years. Any of you who have been to Europe would know that. I went to Spain as early as 1971, and they hated us then. If its about oil, I read where the Alaskan pipeline’s oil goes to Israel, and Korea but none to the US. I thought this was supposed to make us less dependent on the Middle East.
    Something around here isn’t right…..alot of secrets if you ask me…

20. We are so hated, and we have been for years. Any of you who have been to Europe would know that.

    Exactly.
    I suspect the owners of lot of these (American right-wing let’s bring up Sept. 11th when we talk about Hussein) sites have never ventured past our borders, and have seen the way we’re seen through the eyes of Europeans.

    We’re seen as nosy, interfering, arrogant, blind toward anything our friends do, and I can tell you from a news perspective, Network coverage and newspapers are*FAR* from “objective” (And I’m sure your hubby can verify that Donna).

    We don’t run stories where Israeli soldiers shoot & kill U.S. diplomats reaching for a cellphone, or when American missiles wipe out a wedding party in Afghanistan.

    We think all this horrible stuff going on the the world is new… bin Laden has had a price on his head since the 1993 U.S.S. Cole bombing.

    If we *do* help (and we *do* send out a lot of humanitarian aid and relief efforts), it’s with a lot of strings attached. Europe is just a little sick of hearing “you owe us for World War Two” at this point.

    Wanna end brutal dictatorships (like this is anything new)? We can spend decades in South America. Lets start with the puppet regimes we set up after the CIA killed their original leaders. Just in case Panama or Cuba started any shit with us.

    Wanna spend billions liberating someone? Lets liberate some black families in Bed Stuy from the projects, or hispanics in L.A. from the Barrio, let’s liberate a mom & pop store from Chapter 11….?

    Quite honestly, Europe and the Middle East feels *far* more threatened by an “out-of-control” United States that thinks it’s above the law, than they *EVER* will of some third-rate piss ant like Saddam Hussein.

    Regarding oil… between Texas, Alaska, and Mexico, I don’t even see why we even need to constantly kiss OPEC’s ass.

    Newsflash: America does not own the world, and we DON’T have a responsibility to right every wrong.

21. Has anyone ever thought of the possibility that Saddam Hussein wants this and Bush is playing right into his hands?

    I have thought of this, too, Kathy. Not even specifically in terms of Saddam Hussein, but in terms of all those fundamentalist Islamic “leaders” who are trying to recruit more terrorists to go do horrible things to U.S. civilians.

    The actions of Mr. Bush would, it seems to me, specifically play into the hands of Osama bin Ladin and all who are associated with him. It gives validity to the premise that the U.S. is at war with Islam and vice versa. It will give them something to say to the doubter who hesitate to join their cause to bring us down.

    Yes, I think George is playing right into their hands. Right now, I don’t have any way of knowing if I should say that’s a reason to keep our hands in our pockets, or if I should say that’s too bad, we have to do this.

    My biggest problem with ALL of this right now is the lack of information. I understand the need not to compromise intelligence sources but, for heaven’s sake, if you are going to ask us to do this, Mr. President, give us a better reason for it than, “Because they are a threat to us and I can’t show you any evidence for that, you are just going to have to take my word for it.”

    That’s not good enough. The Bush Administration has lied to us too often, has said one thing and done something else too often, for me to be willing to just take their word for anything, let alone something this big.

    You want our support, Mr. President. Then give us a reason to support you. Our backing is not a gift; you have to earn it.

    (disclaimer: this post has not been proofed.)

22. My biggest problem with ALL of this right now is the lack of information. I understand the need not to compromise intelligence sources but, for heaven’s sake, if you are going to ask us to do this, Mr. President, give us a better reason for it than, “Because they are a threat to us and I can’t show you any evidence for that, you are just going to have to take my word for it.”

    I wholeheartedly agree with this. It’s one thing to say they have proof, but why don’t they show it? Or show something?

23. well said, -e-. I don’t really care what proof anyone has. I don’t see that war is the answer. But then, maybe I just don’t see.

24. Well said, sir. My wife (melanie) forwarded your link and suggested I read you. I don’t usually read a lot of Yanks these days, as they all seem to be the “Ye Hah, lock & load” variety, and that just makes me feel ill. Your sentiments mirror my own. Where will you be spending the next few months as the world buckets towards hell in it’s very own, GWB-certified handbasket?

25. OMG – thank you – I’m feeling lighter just reading your post!

26. A solution, a real solution requires something that few in this nation are capable of; a commitment to non-violence. Such efforts are easily undermined by the actions of the desperate few. This is the situation in I/P, where ironically, continued violence is the excuse to stop peace talks. We are calling out the injustice of our enemies while doing no better ourselves.

    “To date we have arrested, or otherwise dealt with, many key commanders of al-Qaida. … All told, more than 3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested in many countries. Many others have met a different fate. Let’s put it this way, they are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies.”

    This is from the State of the Union address. This is a very open admission to the killing of suspects; government sanctioned assassination across the globe. It reminds me of the lines in the short film parody Troops, "All suspects are guilty, otherwise they wouldn’t be suspects. Would they?"

    After some reading of the Koran, (Hopelessly outdated as most religious texts are) I did find that if we actually treat Muslims in the world with respect rather than racially profile them; if we gave food and aid to the many in need in Africa and Palestine, they would be compelled by the Koran to end all violence. Of course, it is said the violence springs from a misinterpretation anyway. This is only partly true from what I’ve read.

    The reason I believe in non-violence is because terrorism trumps the traditional state power. War is far too blunt an instrument. A side-effect of globalization is the reduction of state power and a boosting of the strategy of terrorism’s effectiveness. The only way a state can compete is to strip away the rights of the people. Of course, this only drives the networks further underground rather than eliminate them. The cause (of terrorism) is oppression and globalization makes all oppression easily blamed on the biggest powers which include US, the multi-national corporations, and by association their allies.

    I simply refuse to believe that it can ever be an option to handle differing cultures through mass murder. It stems from an overriding belief that people can be tainted permanently by belief and the only cure is death. It is political fatalism of the worst sort.

    In a nutshell, the solution is to become a better nation, not a more repression and aggressive one. The goal of terrorism is to achieve the latter in your target and it’s working quite marvelously for them.

27. Has anyone ever thought of the possibility that Saddam Hussein wants this and Bush is playing right into his hands?
    OH YEAH!!!
    Besides all the horrible things (we Americans) heard about “The Butcher of Baghdad”, Saddam is a very-underrated statesman and a (*cringes*) “brilliant” Public Relations man. He taunted Bush after 911 by saying “maybe now you’ll rethink your foreign policies”, and released tons of photos of the carnage done to Iraq (particularly children) during the Gulf war.

    He knew *damn* well that would make “Junior” more stubborn, and horrify the entire muslim world at the same time.

    The actions of Mr. Bush would, it seems to me, specifically play into the hands of Osama bin Ladin and all who are associated with him. It gives validity to the premise that the U.S. is at war with Islam
    And that will *precisely* be the angle Saddam and the Muslim world will play. Watch.

    The goal of terrorism is to achieve the latter in your target and it’s working quite marvelously for them.
    We had the world’s sympathy for September 11th. The world knew we were pissed, and we were gonna hit the people responsible for it… and hard. Osama’s message about our interfering in the muslim world came through loud and clear. It was written out with the blood of over 3,000 innocent Americans. I understand you don’t give in to terrorists or else we’ll have car bombs, sarin gas in subways, and all sorts of horrid shit by morons for all stupid reasons on a daily basis in America.

    However, if we (the U.S.) would take a minute to listen to the world’s opinion, as it’s merely spoken, and expressed peacefully… there would be no honor lost on our part if we made some changes and backed out of this.

    The world turned its back, and gave us a pass to do what we had to do to bin Laden. I don’t think they’re gonna let us do it again… not for the lame-ass reasons we’re presenting.

28. The cause (of terrorism) is oppression and globalization makes all oppression easily blamed on the biggest powers which include US, the multi-national corporations, and by association their allies.

    I saw this suggested on a few sites…
    Wouldn’t it be a major shitkicker right now if we decided “In the name of the freedom and human rights that this Administration believes in, now is the time for the Palestinians to have a free and independant homeland of their very own.”

    I’m dreaming here, and I know that… but think about it.
    It would shut Hamas and Islamic Jihad the fuck up. They’d have no excuse to strap a bomb on another person again.

    Yasser Arafat would be a hero to his own people, he’s opened a window of opportunity and good will by sending his sympathies out to Israel and the U.S. for the Space Shuttle disaster.

    LET’S REWARD HIM FOR THIS GESTURE!

    The solutions are not in emotions and remembering “what they did to us”. It’s all in cold hard logic.

    Let’s be honest. Nobody cares about the Palestinians.
    The Western World ignores them, and the Arab states use them as an excuse to launch attacks on Israel.

    Here’s our window of opportunity… let’s take it!

29. I don’t usually read a lot of Yanks these days, as they all seem to be the “Ye Hah, lock & load” variety, and that just makes me feel ill.

    Why do you think call him “President Eastwood”? :0)

    Welcome, Niall. Quite honestly, I am AMAZED at the caliber of discussion here from everyone, considering my Junior High antics.

    I thought the Roe vs. Wade thread was going to get bloody… but instead, both sides were discussed calmly & intelligently… there was no “you’re a slutty baby killer!”, or “You’re a closed minded asshole, wait till your wife is raped… then we’ll see!”

    Just lots of facts, and respect toward both sides.
    Blew my mind, to be honest with you.

    So I guess if there’s a place to discuss it… this is the place.

    Maybe we can make a difference by just talking about it. As an American, I was subjected to a lot of very harsh “anti-American” sentiment post 9/11. The internet gives us ALL the opportunity to exchange ideas. It’s a blessing/curse to have your eyes opened. Maybe more eyes can be opened & we CAN make a difference.

30. I believe the “missile catchers” are going over to protect the innocent women and children and to try to stop the war that appears to be inevitable now.

    I don’t agree with them, I think they’re all f***ing mad for going over there and being a human shield, but I’ve seen a few of them on TV ranting and raving and that was their major reason for doing it.

31. Thank you for your opinion. While I understand the value of a rant, you’ve made some fascinating points – as well as provided some poignant links.

    My concern at this point is that our President has a major hard-on for the complete obliteration of Sadam Hussein. He seems far too willing to write checks that my friends will have to cash in their own blood. I understand the potential threat that this regime poses, but I’ll be damned if we didn’t see this coming almost a year ago. He (Bush) is desperate for an excuse and it is going to cost real lives, real flesh. Both ours and theirs. We can all only hope that this will somehow turn out to an advantage of humanity, not just an advantage of the U.S. and the corporations that run it.

    Thanks again.

    Your’s truly, a cynical bastard-

    Aidan

32. Thank you, -e-, for saying it better than I ever could. Bryan is in the Army Reserves and has been put on alert. I’m praying for a peaceful resolution.

33. Thank you, -e-, for saying it better than I ever could. Bryan is in the Army Reserves and has been put on alert. I’m praying for a peaceful resolution.

34. So does this mean you guys are finally starting to see the light??
    ….-
    COMMENT:
    I’ve no time to follow all the links, but to most all of this, oh yeah.

    I am so much more worried about the situation in Pakistan, where the possibility of nuclear war seems much higher than in Iraq. Hell, I may indeed be misinformed – but Pakistan isn’t really being mentioned much in the national debate on “to war or not to war.” I could trust our apparent need to get back into a wildly expensive war (when we’re still not getting around to fixing our education system with our Education President), if I could get some logic on why Iraq is a larger threat than Korea and Pakistan. And I know so much of the facts are lost in the diplomatic tap dancing that goes on with oil and the Middle East, and our country’s ties to Asia. Which is again why I say – it’s such a larger issue to get your head around. Those people telling me it’s simple – bomb Iraq=fight terrorism just aren’t understanding my questions. If our government does have all this information as to why Iraq is a larger threat to our national security than Pakistan or Korea, well, if they’d share it, it’d convince me. I know, I know – national security, can’t tip our hand. Well, last I heard (too rushed to find linkage) such info was shared with some Senators (or was it Congressmen) – and some left the room totally assured that we needed to declare war, and some left still unsure of Iraq’s guilt re: weapons and terrorism. So here we go, no clear cut black and white issue going on.

    Meanwhile, I believe there is proof that Korea and Pakistan are quite far along in their nuke building, and we don’t even have a huge posse of inspectors in there telling us this. Not to mention, Pakistan has been quite threatening in its rhetoric. Oh but we don’t care – they’re just being pissy towards India.

    And let’s remember the Gulf War – if we feel in ANY way unsure or unclear on what the facts are because of our govt’s lack of sharing them, or being clear – it will get worse. There will be a lockdown on info that the media can broadcast, and there will be much withheld from us. I’m not bitching about not knowing the exact battle plans – I’m talking spin control. I’m not an expert in the Gulf War coverage – but there’s plenty out there on how reporters were kept from documenting things that, in previous wars, had been published – often delayed so as not to put troop maneuvers in danger, but published nonetheless – there was a far greater information flow. In Vietnam. When the government especially hated the press, and the press seemed to do its job a bit better by asking uncomfortable questions.

    Is not unAmerican or wanting to go cuddle terrorists or being a liberal-commie-pinko to want to ask questions of our government. We’re a country that has long prided itself in not being sheep – in asking tough questions and not always having the entire popularion agree, or follow a so-called “majority.” It’s called wanting to be informed before we get ready to fight til the death. You know, you can be in the military and still want to be informed and still have doubts. Follow orders yes, but still have doubts. This is ok.

    So if you feel ignorant now (and I do) get ready) it’s going to get worse. Prepare to learn everything about what’s really going on months, if not years, from now,

    And dammit, I need to go to my own blog again, don’t I?
    No time! Must rush off! Argh!

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